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Stuck setting up KNX and Loxone

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  • Tico
    antwortet
    Question Two: Have you tried changing the temperature setting in ETS to Celcius? I would be curious to see what occurs if the Data Type is saved to the switch as "9.001 temperature (°C)".


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    Questions Three: I don't read that it has a presence sensor.

    "The Sentido switch uses the patented Multitouch technology. Touching more than one touch sensitive area at the same time activates an additional Comfort function which also can be used by KNX."

    The manual speaks of an internal thermostat function in the switch. The thermostat can work in 4 modes. Each mode has a temperature setpoint assigned to it.

    Comfort: To be activated when people are present in the room. The temperature is set to a comfortable value.

    So you walk into the room, touch more than one touch sensitive area on the switch, and the 'Comfort' mode is activated for the thermostat. This then regulates to a defined temperature range as specified in the ETS setup.

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  • DavidFindling
    antwortet
    Thank you for your response. I have added information to my prior questions. The questions are restated below. I also have uploaded screenshots and the manual for my KNX switches.

    I have installed KNX Sentido capacitance switches with integrated temperature. It has been explained that I should stick with Loxone for control and only use ETS5 for KNX configuration. In ETS5, I have configured the four capacitance sensors with individual addresses and the temperature sensor. The data type is set at 9.027 Temperature Sensor, Fahrenheit for each room. You can see a screenshot below.

    Loxone recognizes the group addresses and shows communication in the EIB monitor. I have included a screenshot of the EIB monitor. In Loxone, I have created an EIB sensor for each temperature KNX device. It doesn't appear that the KNX switches are properly configured in ETS5.

    Question One: Answered.

    Question Two: I am still having problems getting proper temperature values from the integrated thermostats. I had Loxone support help me setup ETS 5 for the temperature sensor. I have attached three screen shots. The first is my ETS 5 setup. The second is my EIB Monitor in Config and the third is a better display of the temperature settings. What have I done incorrectly?

    Question Three: Can I use the presence sensor in the Sentido or is that just for proximity? In the Sentido manual, it describes a presence object. Is that a true presence sensor or a KNX term?

    4.2.1.1 Presence object

    The presence object allows the user to automatically switch to the appropriate mode, depending onthe presence in a room.When the presence object is active, the mode is set to comfort.

    When the presence object is inactive, the mode changes to standby or economy, depending on the settings.
    I appreciate everyone's help from the forum. This has been a difficult project which I never expected to have to do myself. I hired a company and the owner went out of business and left me stuck.

    David

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  • Christian Fenzl
    antwortet
    Ad 2.
    All of them send 5 degrees Celsius - you store them in the fridge? 😅

    Tell us what the device is, best with a link to the technical spec (with the KNX communication documentation).

    Ad 3.
    I don’t understand the question... 🤔

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  • Christian Fenzl
    antwortet
    Ad. 1
    Different approaches:

    Buy another KNX 0-10V Analog Out actuator. In Austria, a 4-Ch actuator is around 130-150 Euro.

    If you have valves for the same room, you may connect two valves to the same 0-10V output.

    You also may buy two 24VDC valves and use them on the digital outputs, using pwm control.

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  • DavidFindling
    antwortet
    I love this forum! I appreciate all of my fellow Loxnauts. Update, I have successfully communicated with my switches and they are recognized by the Miniserver. Also, I have started to connect my dampers to the Analog Outputs on my extensions.

    Question One: Loxone only provides 4 outputs and a ground on the black terminal. I have 10 (non-tree) dampers in one panel. How to I resolve the problem of needing 2 more 0-10v outputs?

    Question Two: I am still having problems getting proper temperature values from the integrated thermostats. I had Loxone support help me setup ETS 5 for the temperature sensor. I have attached three screen shots. The first is my ETS 5 setup. The second is my EIB Monitor in Config and the third is a better display of the temperature settings. What have I done incorrectly?

    Question Three: Can I use the presence sensor in the Sentido or is that just for proximity?

    Thank you in advance for the help. Not only has KNX not used in the United States, no one even recognizes that KNX exists when I ask.

    David

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  • Christian Fenzl
    antwortet
    I’m not sure, what addresses you are talking about (physical addresses or group addresses).

    In my installation, for group addresses I used the first number for the device type (0/x/x are central functions like daylight and time), 1/x/x are actuators, 2/x/x are switches, 3/x/x are sensors).

    For my switches, then, I used incremental numbering, so first switch device is 2/0/x, second switch device is 2/1/x.

    The last number of the group address I assigned equivalent to the communication object number of the switch device, e.g. MDT Glass switch 1 offers communication objects like “20 button 1 pushed”, “23 button 1 LED”, “24 button 1 LED priority”, and I simply used 2/3/20, 2/3/23 and 2/3/24 as their group addresses.

    To get the button press, it requires in ETS to assign a group address to that device’s communication object (button 1 —> 2/3/20), and in Loxone it requires a KNX Sensor with group address 2/3/20.

    To stay with my example, to switch on the LED of button 1, the device’s button 1 led communication object requires a group address 2/3/23 in ETS, and accordingly a KNX Actor 2/3/23 in Loxone.

    See the LoxWiki, searching for “KNX” or “Glastaster”. That may not be your devices, but could help to get in touch.

    Regards,
    Christian

    PS: I like Trump - currently best comedy from the USA 😉

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  • DavidFindling
    antwortet
    Hi Everyone:

    I have made progress! Thank to all who commented. The comment regarding the voltage of the KNX power supply was enormously helpful. I never imagined that a power supply sold in the United States would be 220v. Instead of searching for a new power supply, I asked my electrician to wire it for 220v.

    Next I had to work on proper wiring. I have six panels in different locations in the house. I used a toner to locate the ethernet cables and corrected any wiring issues. Once I saw 30v, I knew that I was successful with fixing the wiring.

    I have been able to get most of my switches recognized and addressed by ETS5. It was a wonderful feeling watching the green bar show progress and completion of the commissioning.

    I am now trying to integrate ETS5 and Loxone config and I am a bit confused. I have set up the line addresses for my switches. They have 4 areas that can be touched (plus multi-touch etc.). For example, the master bath is 1.1.6. I have a top level section (6) for the master bath, (0) for on/off in the middle and then 0, 1, 2 and 3 for the four sections for the last addresses. Top Left (6/0/0), Top Right (6/0/1), Bottom Left (6/0/2) and Bottom Right (6/0/3).

    Is that all I need for Loxone? Loxone Config sees the line addresses for each switch. I am still uncertain how to program the group addresses into Config. I am also uncertain what other addresses I need to establish in ETS5 for the thermostat which is in the switch. It would seem that ETS5 would just set up the switch as a dumb terminal and Loxone would send it the 0s and 1s but I just don't know. The Loxone documentation is very helpful.

    Thank you in advance for your assistance.

    David
    P.S. In case you are wondering, I am an American that hates Trump.

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  • Labmaster
    antwortet
    If you want to use your Meanwell KNX Powersupply together with a input voltage transformer (110v to ~230V) you still have to make sure that, you use the right output on the KNX Powersupply.
    Most KNX Powersupplys ( even the Meanwell ) have two outputs , one for the main KNX Bus (that one with the small red/black connector) and that one with the screw terminls ( helper output, but not usable for the KNX Bus itself )

    You have to use the output with the small red/black connector. The other output has no choke installed and so will preven data transmition.
    Zuletzt geändert von Labmaster; 10.Jul.2020, 07:43.

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  • Labmaster
    antwortet
    a good point.
    Zennio, ABB, Weinzierl and Jung have KNX Powersupplys with wide range Input capable of 110V .

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  • Tico
    antwortet
    Did you read post #11? It won't work with 110VAC.

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  • DavidFindling
    antwortet
    I connected my KNX power supply to a 110v outlet. Without anything connected, I measured only 83mv. In addition, none of the lights turned on. I tried the reset for 20 seconds but that cause any change. Is there something wrong with the power supply? In my earlier post, I had explained that the KNX power supply wasn't in use. The reason is because I thought there was something wrong with it. Does anyone else have this power supply? Is it working properly?

    I was expecting a 30v output. Is it different with a KNX supply?

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  • Tico
    antwortet
    I notice that the input voltage range for the Meanwell KNX power supply is 180-264 VAC. Can I assume that your nominal house voltage is 110VAC in the USA? This is not likely to work.


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    You will need an AC-AC transformer to suit the European standards of the Meanwell KNX voltage input requirements -

    https://voltage-converter-transforme...rmer-converter

    On reading the details on the IP POE interface, it appears that it just provides an IP interface for KNX, but it doesn't suggest that it powers the KNX bus. It appears the IP interface is powered via the POE network or you can inject power direct to the IP device (again, this direct power supply just powers the IP device and not the KNX bus). You still need a dedicated KNX power supply to power the KNX bus.

    I suggest the KNX IP POE interface may only be required if you have a really stubborn device that refuses to talk to the Miniserver. At the moment, you just need the correct voltage supply for the Meanwell KNX-20E-640.



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    Zuletzt geändert von Tico; 09.Jul.2020, 07:40.

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  • Labmaster
    kommentierte 's Antwort
    I have nothing written about power / voltages.
    KNX would probably work down to about 22V but a so called KNX Powersupply has a special choke integrated, this choke allows to put data on the line. Without that choke no data can be modulated to the lines.
    A „standard‘ powersupply will not work !!!
    From ABB and others there are external KNX Power couplers ( in fact external chokes ) available but in the actual context this would make things even more complicaed to explain, so let us agree that you need a KNX Powersupply ( in one housings, or in two , it doesnt matter )

    At the moment we know near to nothing about the actual setup and/or the planned setup, as soon as we know more we. are able to give suggestions regarding current, voltage ....
    Zuletzt geändert von Labmaster; 08.Jul.2020, 08:24.

  • Tico
    kommentierte 's Antwort
    Correct - 30VDC. I use the same power supply and I've never needed to alter it from factory settings.

  • DavidFindling
    antwortet
    All:

    Thank you again for responding. I really appreciate your willingness to help me. I will try to send some wiring pics after I finish this post and upload them. I did purchase a dedicated KNX power supply https://www.meanwell.com/Upload/PDF/...E-640-SPEC.PDF. However, I was having problems with it and do not have it installed. From everyone's comments, it appears that I should employ Occam's Razor and get back to simplicity.

    I will remove the IP POE interface and run the wiring from the miniserver to KNX power supply. Am I correct that KNX should be run at 30v? I will try to make the suggested changes and report.

    David

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