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button panel + electricity meter + doorphone

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  • button panel + electricity meter + doorphone

    Hello,

    Some renovations are planned in my apartment building and I want to check how I can modify some things.

    In the building, the electricity meters are in the common corridor. As they will be moved (but still in the common corridor), a new cable to the apartment will be put. Is there any point in adding an additional cable (e.g. cat5/6) to be able to integrate some meter reading at a later point? If so, which cable would be the best option?

    The second change is rather local: at the moment all inputs/outputs of my Loxone Miniserver are unused (all my controls are KNX). I was thinking of adding a button panel, e.g. the Gira TastSensor2 to the inputs (it is the only button system I could find that allows for addressing of the leds, so I could associated those with the outputs), just to give me a central panel with 12 buttons (yes? 8 digital + 4 analog used as digital) and 12 status lights that I can assign for whatever. The panel would match my lightswitches (Gira pushbutton3 knx). But any suggestions for other panels or status things?

    The third change is a new doorphone system, but I don't know yet about integration possibilities. As it is a big apartmentbuilding, they will be installing a system for multiple apartments, and of course I have to go with what they offer. So first challenge is to try and learn what they will install, for sure I'll get back to this when I know more.

    Thanks!

  • #2
    Is there any point in adding an additional cable (e.g. cat5/6) to be able to integrate some meter reading at a later point? If so, which cable would be the best option?
    It depends. Typical smart meter readers use IR here in Germany, e.g. https://shop.weidmann-elektronik.de/...roduct&info=24, but I'm not sure if this is also the case in your country. Meanwhile there is a huge community at volkszaehler.org and readers are available from very cheap like https://pgoergen.de/de/2018/05/build...g-head-for-1e/ up to more expensive (professional) like https://shop.loxone.com/dede/zaehler...ce-ir-air.html So the cable - if required - depends on the type of reader and the distance. I'm not sure about the maximum distance for USB. It also depends on the option to install e.g. a raspberry near the meter and use Ethernet to your apartment. Theft may have to be considered as well.

    all inputs/outputs of my Loxone Miniserver are unused
    If you've used KNX to be less dependent on Loxone, it's not a bad decision. Are you looking to use this one https://katalog.gira.de/en/datenblatt.html?id=653059 ? You would need 6 inputs and 6 outputs for one, so in total up to two may be supported. The analog inputs / outputs of the MS may be used as digital. At the end you have two pushbutton sensors that are different from you KNX ones, but look very similar. At the end you may save maybe 200 ‚ā¨, but have used all you IOs. I would rather look for a different use of the I/Os, e.g. to switch power sockets, lights, ...

    Regarding a doorphone system there are some systems listed in https://www.loxwiki.eu/pages/viewpag...?pageId=360589 and around some of these systems there a plenty of threads here in the forum. Hopefully google translator is good enough to understand the topics, because almost all stuff is in German. If the system is used for the whole apartment building, it may be rather a closed system without any official options to integrate it into a Loxone system. Maybe you can add a relay into the doorbell to forward that signal to the MS - a free digital or analog input would be good in this case. For a door opener a DO may be an option. I would keep a few free AIs/DIs and also AOs/DOs to be able to do some integration later on.

    Regards,
    Jan
    Miniserver v10.0.9.24, 2x Ext., 2x Relay Ext., 2x Dimmer Ext., DMX Ext., 1-Wire Ext., Gira KNX Tastsensor 3 Komfort, Gira KNX Pr√§senzmelder, Fenster- und T√ľrkontakte, Loxone Regen- und Windsensor, Gira Dual Q Rauchmelder vernetzt mit 1x Relais-Modul
    Loxberry: SmartMeter, MS Backup, CamConnect, Weather4Lox
    L√ľftung: Helios KWL EC 370W ET mit Modbus TCP - via Pico-C
    Heizung: Stiebel Eltron WPF 5 cool (Sole-Wasser WP) mit ISG, FB-Heizung mit 18 Kreisen, Erdsonde - via modifiziertem ISG

    Kommentar


    • #3
      Thanks for the replies!

      Zitat von Jan W. Beitrag anzeigen
      It depends. Typical smart meter readers use IR here in Germany, e.g. https://shop.weidmann-elektronik.de/...roduct&info=24, but I'm not sure if this is also the case in your country. Meanwhile there is a huge community at volkszaehler.org and readers are available from very cheap like https://pgoergen.de/de/2018/05/build...g-head-for-1e/ up to more expensive (professional) like https://shop.loxone.com/dede/zaehler...ce-ir-air.html So the cable - if required - depends on the type of reader and the distance. I'm not sure about the maximum distance for USB. It also depends on the option to install e.g. a raspberry near the meter and use Ethernet to your apartment. Theft may have to be considered as well.
      Theft is most likely not an issue, but there is no option to put a raspberry or so there. Hence my idea of an ethernet cable: many signals can be sent over it (usb over ethernet, rs232, ...), so it could be quite a universal cable with a chance of finding something later that could work with it.

      Zitat von Jan W. Beitrag anzeigen
      If you've used KNX to be less dependent on Loxone, it's not a bad decision. Are you looking to use this one https://katalog.gira.de/en/datenblatt.html?id=653059 ? You would need 6 inputs and 6 outputs for one, so in total up to two may be supported. The analog inputs / outputs of the MS may be used as digital. At the end you have two pushbutton sensors that are different from you KNX ones, but look very similar. At the end you may save maybe 200 ‚ā¨, but have used all you IOs. I would rather look for a different use of the I/Os, e.g. to switch power sockets, lights, ...
      Yes, that is the one I was looking at. The apartment was rewired a few years ago, and I don't really have cables to connect to the inputs from other locations (all inputs are KNX, didn't see the need to wire others). The Miniserver is in the corridor, so I could easily get a buttonpanel in the corridor.

      You have a point regarding the outputs; I have a few sockets that have been wired separately, with the aim of making them switched later on (my knx relay is full and I thought I'll start like this and see what else I would need later). At the moment, I don't really see a big need to have some more sockets controlled, and when connecting them to the Miniserver it would be an issue to control those sockets from the KNX switches (not impossible).

      There is a second stage of renovations planned in our building, which would have a big impact on many things (changing of central heating) and I would consider that point to e.g. revise some controls (e.g. add electric blinds). But then I would not have enough outputs on the Microserver for the number of blinds, so again it would require adding components. So in that case, not to mix controls I was thinking of adding some additional system (additional KNX relay? zwave?) to control blinds and perhaps some additional sockets. I also may need to find a way of adding a radiator valve if the heating in the bathroom is revised (currently it is a non-controllable heating, if that changes I need one more valve drive but I don't have one available in my KNX controller). But that is future planning (4-5 years away). Long story short: I feel that that expansion will surpass the Miniserver IOs and will require additional hardware anyway. So I could consider the IOs as available...

      Zitat von Jan W. Beitrag anzeigen
      If the system is used for the whole apartment building, it may be rather a closed system without any official options to integrate it into a Loxone system. Maybe you can add a relay into the doorbell to forward that signal to the MS - a free digital or analog input would be good in this case. For a door opener a DO may be an option. I would keep a few free AIs/DIs and also AOs/DOs to be able to do some integration later on.
      I will need to get more technical details on the system they will install: some popular ones here connect the units with an ethernet cable, but that kills the possibilities of using a digital output for e..g a door opener. Some of those systems allow for a netwok bridge in the apartment, to integrate the doorphone with a system. I need to know what they will install and if that brand offers some integration option.

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