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Loxone and SIP

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  • Loxone and SIP

    Can anyone explain my how the Loxone Door controller register itself with an external SIP-server? In the configuration of the door controller, one has to specify the sip host (e.g. iptel.org) and the sip-user Id, but there is no sip password field that is required to register the user with the sip-server? I would think that in order to have an audio connection between the Loxone Intercom/Mobotix T25, you need to register 2 users in the sip server: one for the Intercom and one for the Doocontroller. Is that correct? if not, pls can you explain how this works?

  • #2
    Only the intercom (the hardware mounted at the door) registers with an external SIP provider, see section "SETUP FOR EXTERNAL AUDIO CONNECTION" at http://www.loxone.com/enen/service/d...tercom-xl.html (a quick search only came up with the link for the XL version, but this does not matter).

    Configuration of the door controller is used by the Loxone app on the smartphone and here you only have the options for a SIP host and a user-id. This ID is NOT for the app itself, but used to make an anonymous call to the intercom that has registered as a SIP client with the credentials shown above. The app is NOT a full SIP client, so it does not register with a SIP provider. This is the reason why you don't have an option for a password. The Loxone app can make outgoing calls as an anonymous SIP user to the intercom by using the user-ID as a "phone number" for the destination (the intercom). Iptel is one provider that supports these anonymous calls.

    If you are using the intercom internally, it acts as a SIP server, so the app is directly connecting (again, as an anonymous user) to the intercom itself.

    I hope this helps. The documentation from Loxone regarding the intercom is very bad, they only provide an example with Iptel. I could neither find any technical description from Loxone that describes how it works, nor any graphical workflow with arrows and order of steps.

    Kind Regards,

    Jan


    Miniserver v10.0.9.24, 2x Ext., 2x Relay Ext., 2x Dimmer Ext., DMX Ext., 1-Wire Ext., Gira KNX Tastsensor 3 Komfort, Gira KNX Präsenzmelder, Fenster- und Türkontakte, Loxone Regen- und Windsensor, Gira Dual Q Rauchmelder vernetzt mit 1x Relais-Modul
    Loxberry: SmartMeter, MS Backup, CamConnect, Weather4Lox
    Lüftung: Helios KWL EC 370W ET mit Modbus TCP - via Pico-C
    Heizung: Stiebel Eltron WPF 5 cool (Sole-Wasser WP) mit ISG, FB-Heizung mit 18 Kreisen, Erdsonde - via modifiziertem ISG

    Kommentar


    • #3
      Hi Jan,

      Thanks for your reply. This is the 1st time I received some valuable information about the working of the door controller. It is incredible that Loxone is using the concept of anonymous user, because from the information I read on the internet, this type of user is in many cases not allowed with a lot of SIP-providers. I wonder what Loxone would do if iptel.org does not allow anymore this type of user...

      I believe the scenario for setting up a SIP call is as follows (correct me if I am wrong):
      1. Bell button on the camera is pushed
      2. Signal event is sent to the Loxone door controller
      3. Loxone app pops up and video is showing from the door controller
      4. The Loxone user pushes the phone icon on the door controller (I do not think that a sip call is being setup automatically from the Camera).
      5. The camera sets up a sip call using its SIP-id, as calling party, and anonymous -id, as called party, which is identified in the camera as the Loxone door controller
      6. SIP call is established.

      The step from point 4 to point 5 is not clear to me how this happens

      Knowing this I still have to find out why the SIP-client on the camera fails to register with iptel, although I have filled in all required parameters (if i use the same SIP-user id on a dedicated client on Android or on an iPad, this SIP-user does register itself without any issue with iptel. So this is weird to me. Do you know about any pitfalls here?

      BR,

      Jan M.

      Kommentar


      • #4
        I fully agree with you. So far Iptel.org is allowing anonymous calls, but this if not the case with most other SIP providers.

        3. Loxone app pops up and video is showing from the door controller
        You get a push notification on the home screen, but due to restrictions from Apple the Loxone app is not moved into foreground. If the app was running in the foreground, you see the door controller. Video works, if the URL from external was set up correctly and the phone is able to reach the camera - either via VPN or port forwarding. Keep in mind that MJPEG video requires a lot of bandwidth, e.g. HD video with >20 frames per second might need more than 10 MBit/s. A typical ADSL Internet connection at home might not have that amount of upload bandwidth. Instead of video, you may use pictures which should be good enough for a door cam to see who is ringing.

        4. The Loxone user pushes the phone icon on the door controller (I do not think that a sip call is being setup automatically from the Camera).
        I haven't tested this with Iptel so far, but I believe that the smartphone / Loxone app is connecting to the SIP provider as an anonymous SIP client and initiates the call (sends the SIP INVITE message to the provider) to name provided with the door controller in Loxconfig (which is the intercom / part mounted at the door).

        5. The camera sets up a sip call using its SIP-id, as calling party, and anonymous -id, as called party, which is identified in the camera as the Loxone door controller
        Well technically it's not the camera, but the SIP audio client / intercom (the part mounted at the door). I believe (not tested by myself) that the intercom (the part mounted at the door) needs to have registered with the SIP provider first to be able to receive the call, so it does NOT set up a SIP call.

        I don't know why your SIP client is not able to register, maybe another user is able to provide more detailled information. Here are just some general tips: First check the IP settings, specifically default gateway and DNS servers. The verify all settings in the section "SETUP FOR EXTERNAL AUDIO CONNECTION" in e.g. http://www.loxone.com/enen/service/d...tercom-xl.html

        If you have a Fritz!box (http://fritz.box/html/capture.html) or a switch with port mirroring you are able to capture packets and analyse the packets with Wireshark afterwards.

        Cheers,
        Jan
        Miniserver v10.0.9.24, 2x Ext., 2x Relay Ext., 2x Dimmer Ext., DMX Ext., 1-Wire Ext., Gira KNX Tastsensor 3 Komfort, Gira KNX Präsenzmelder, Fenster- und Türkontakte, Loxone Regen- und Windsensor, Gira Dual Q Rauchmelder vernetzt mit 1x Relais-Modul
        Loxberry: SmartMeter, MS Backup, CamConnect, Weather4Lox
        Lüftung: Helios KWL EC 370W ET mit Modbus TCP - via Pico-C
        Heizung: Stiebel Eltron WPF 5 cool (Sole-Wasser WP) mit ISG, FB-Heizung mit 18 Kreisen, Erdsonde - via modifiziertem ISG

        Kommentar


        • #5
          I managed to get my SIP working between T25 and Loxone....at last. The major reason was that in mobotix the sip port client is being set to default 5060. This seems not to be correct. Therefore I changed to value to 5065. I also removed all port forwarding sip-ports in my gateway (modem), because I noticed that for all SIP communication (signalling, voice video), ALG was providing me the necessary forwarding. Now I have voice communication between the T25 and the loxone app on my smart phone.

          Kommentar


          • #6
            The default port for SIP is 5060. But if your modem/router support SIP himself, the 5060 is used by the router an couldn't be used by other clients.

            greetings
            Sven
            Miniserver; KNX; Vitogate; EnOcean (EnOceanPi); Loxone Air; Caldav-Kalenderanbindung; RaspberryPi und für keine Frickellösung zu schade :-)

            Kommentar


            • #7
              Hi Sven, my router does not support SIP, it has no SIP-client. The default port for the SIP-server is 5060, not for the client. I would expect that a sip-client can have any port (except for the well-known ports), so even 5060. That is why I would have expected that the default port 5060 for my sip-client would not give any issues. Only by changing that sip-client port to another value, I got it working (I also deleted any sip-port forwarding in my modem). In the pcap traces from the T25, I did not see any reply from the sip-server. Trying to understand what was really the issue, I configured the sip-port of the T25 client back to 5060. Guess what, this client was not able to register anymore. As soon as I changed the sip-port to e.g. 5065, the client registered again successfully. Therefore, I am quiet sure, that I cannot use the port 5060 for my sip-client.

              Best Regards, Jan.

              Kommentar


              • #8
                Thats not right. SIP communicate over the stateless protocol UDP. Normaly both sides listen on port 5060 for incoming packages. If the SIP Gateway is outside of your network, you have to forward the UDP/5060 direct to the client. If you don't do this, all outgoing packages will be NATed. If you have more than one client you must change the port on every client and setup matching forward rules. Some routers are blocking SIP ports. If your setup now works with your settings evering is fine ;-)

                greetings
                Sven
                Miniserver; KNX; Vitogate; EnOcean (EnOceanPi); Loxone Air; Caldav-Kalenderanbindung; RaspberryPi und für keine Frickellösung zu schade :-)

                Kommentar


                • #9
                  Hello,

                  I've been messing around with a SIP enabled intercom (Panasonic KX-NTV160) and got the video part working quite easily.
                  The audio and/or push button reaction has been something else.

                  The config for this Panasonic unit is quite basic as it doesn't have the fancy events the Mobotix T25 supports, upon the press of the button, the Panasonic calls... A phone number. There are some trigger events as well (motion detection, tamper detection, digital input). I Think I could connect the physical input to the digital input and have that trigger a http event (virtual input Loxone), that could make the unit useful to have the loxone come up with the video image upon the press of the button, but a SIP connection I don't see how that'd work...

                  I can't see how that could be done as the unit seems to only be capable to make outgoing calls to a predefined phone number (as normally you'd register this unit to a PBX)
                  I've attached some screenshots from the config page as well as a link to the user manual: http://cs-im.psn-web.net/Global/PBX/..._UM(en)_WA.pdf

                  All and any ideas are welcome, I'm hoping I've overlooked something obvious :-)

                  Kommentar


                  • #10
                    Hello Logizomechanophobi,

                    as far as I can see the Panasonic KX-NTV160 does not work with Loxone at all. The Loxone app does NOT act as a SIP client, but is only able to make outgoing SIP calls to a know IP-address without any authentication or registration in advance, so either the intercom or a PBX needs to work as a SIP server that allows such incoming anonymous SIP calls.

                    With video the Loxone app as well as the web interface is only able to use MJPG as the video format. The video is NOT included in the SIP call itself, it's rather a webcam style. I couldn't find any information, but only some information that it is NOT compatible, e.g. "Support H.264 and JPEG (only for RTSP)". Neither H.264 nor RTSP (both are used for video calls) are supported by Loxone.

                    Sorry for that information. Maybe you find some undocumented stuff...

                    Jan
                    Miniserver v10.0.9.24, 2x Ext., 2x Relay Ext., 2x Dimmer Ext., DMX Ext., 1-Wire Ext., Gira KNX Tastsensor 3 Komfort, Gira KNX Präsenzmelder, Fenster- und Türkontakte, Loxone Regen- und Windsensor, Gira Dual Q Rauchmelder vernetzt mit 1x Relais-Modul
                    Loxberry: SmartMeter, MS Backup, CamConnect, Weather4Lox
                    Lüftung: Helios KWL EC 370W ET mit Modbus TCP - via Pico-C
                    Heizung: Stiebel Eltron WPF 5 cool (Sole-Wasser WP) mit ISG, FB-Heizung mit 18 Kreisen, Erdsonde - via modifiziertem ISG

                    Kommentar


                    • #11
                      Hello Jan,


                      Thanks for your reply. The RTSP stream set to JPEG results in a *.mjpg URL that I can load into the Loxone software just fine. I got that working both internally and externally.

                      But as you point out, the SIP client is too limited to be able to register the anonymous Loxone with a SIP server like iptel. (it basically is a device to register to a (local) PBX, and afaik there's no way to have iptel e.g. to act as such and even if it would, there'd be no way to get the loxone to listen in.

                      So basically the intercom could act as at best an IP camera with Loxone.

                      Kommentar


                      • #12
                        Hello,

                        I've been trying to integrate my IP Pbx on the Loxone application using the door controller. My IP Pbx server is up and running in the same house as Loxone with 15-20 extensions and SIP phones. I want my Loxone application to initiate VOIP calls using the IP Pbx server as the calling party. Since you have previously done this between T25 and Loxone, i would like to know how you did it. Any help would be appreciated. My IP Pbx server is Elastix 5.0

                        Thank you,
                        Essam.

                        Kommentar


                        • #13
                          Hi,
                          thx for all the details. Reading through here and combining it with https://www.doorbird.com/sip, supported by Loxone Integration Doorbird IP-Türstation and DoorBird Connect AVM FRITZ!Box mit FRITZ!Fon, I conclude:
                          1. Loxone's MiniServer does not provide any SIP server capability it. Instead, it does peer2peer doing
                            anonymous -id, as called party
                          2. if you have more than one server etc. you have to have SIP server / PBX in your network plus a system, what supports individual SIP calls.
                            Integrate them similar as given in https://www.loxforum.com/forum/faqs-...orpi-projektes
                            SIP server:


                          Glossary is found on https://www.loxforum.com/forum/small...way#post218904

                          Kommentar


                          • Jan W.
                            Jan W. kommentierte
                            Kommentar bearbeiten
                            Not exactly. Loxone's MiniServer does not provide anything regarding SIP, no client, no server.

                            The app on mobile devices includes a very limited sip client that does anonymous calling in a peer2peer style without any registration to a SIP server. It sends the SIP Invite to the IP-address or hostname defined in the "host for audio intern / extern" field and uses the "username for audio intern / extern" to identify the called party, e.g. INVITE sip:621@192.168.1.60. The caller (the app) does not use any username to identify itself, but just the IP-address of the mobile device. The app can only do outbound calls, but is not able to receive a call.

                          • PackElend
                            PackElend kommentierte
                            Kommentar bearbeiten
                            thx for the update
                            So in case some rings at the door the app is notified about it and will call the door anonymously, to speak to the person at the door

                          • Jan W.
                            Jan W. kommentierte
                            Kommentar bearbeiten
                            Yes, that‘s the war it is designed to work.
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