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Stuck setting up KNX and Loxone

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  • Stuck setting up KNX and Loxone

    Hi:

    I have KNX switches and live near Detroit, Michigan. I would like to integrate them in ETS5 and config. However, I am still unable to program them in ETS5. This is a new system and no one on this side of the Atlantic seems to know anything about KNX.

    I have been able to set up the IP tunnel with the miniserver. I have added a power supply and verified the voltage. I just can't seem to be able to program my devices. I would really appreciate any help anyone out there can offer. I have tried to watch or read everything out there. I have even watched German youtube videos with english closed captioning.

    David


  • #2
    Hi,

    do you have Miniserver V1 (with integrated KNX Interface)?

    What power supply have you added - a KNX supply with included choke?

    Where are you stuck? What is the step that doesn’t work?
    LoxBerry/Plugin Support: Wenn du einen Begriff in meiner Antwort nicht auf Anhieb verstehst, bitte nicht gleich rückfragen, sondern erst die Suche im LoxWiki und bei Google bemühen.
    PN/PM: Ich bevorzuge die Beantwortung von Fragen in öffentlichen Threads, wo andere mithelfen und mitprofitieren können. Herzlichen Dank!

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    • #3
      As Christian already mentioned, we would need more informations.

      Anyhow, just to be sure:
      For getting the KNX Bus up and running, you will need a "KNX Power Supply" beside the Miniserver on the bus.This (special) KNX Power Supplys creates the electrical KNX Bus environment where all KNX devices (like actors, sensors e.g. Miniserver) can be connected to then. A normal power supply will not work as this would not allow to put data on the same physical wire together with the power.

      And please note, that depending on the devices, not all devices can be programmed by the miniserver (as programming interface) as the miniserver seems not to fully comply with the KNX standard. So for a serious KNX installation i would suggest to buy a additional KNX IP Interface / Router.
      A KNX brand where you get a good bang for the buck is for example MDT. Checkout their KNX Powersupplys ( https://www.mdt.de/EN_Bus_Power_Supplies_STC.html ) and IP Interfaces IP routers ( https://www.mdt.de/EN_IP_Interface_Router.html )
      Zuletzt geändert von Labmaster; 02.Jun.2020, 07:05.

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      • #4
        once you have the basics up and running you can use the EIB monitor within loxone config during live view to see the knx telegrams - if there are no telegrams then your basic power supply/wiring/link to the miniserver knx input isnt working

        if thats working and ets isnt, then your ets configuration (including gateway configuration) isnt correct

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        • #5
          All:

          Thank you so much for replying. I didn't receive notification that anyone had responded to my posts. I will provide an update on my hardware as requested.

          My miniserver is v1 and it is located in our lower level. Recently, in my never ending pursuit of KNX functionality, I purchased a N000401 from EIBMarkt https://www.eibmarkt.com/gb/products...s-N000401.html I thought that maybe with an IP interface, my problems would be resolved. Unfortunately, no.

          From the miniserver, KNX enters the IP interface by a twisted pair of Cat 6. It is POE and I have it connected to a Ubiquiti POE switch. If I have the POE IP interface, do I still need a separate power supply? Also, the KNX light on the IP interface does not illuminate.

          As far as the miniserver, I have not been able to connect to it through ETS5. I have just accepted that the miniserver won't connect until ETS5 is properly configured.

          I terribly frustrated and feel a bit overwhelmed. I know that there are small mistakes being made but without the experience, I don't know where. My wife is really frustrated. We have lived in our house for almost 9 months and we still can't turn on our lights.

          I really need professional help (the KNX type). I have tried to find someone in the United States but KNX is really unknown here. EtS5 is set up on a Windows PC with remote desktop connection. Does anybody have a knowledgeable KNX guru that I can hire to get me over the finish line? Ordinarily, I would struggle until the problem was located. My wife and kids just can't wait for me to resolve the problems.

          If anyone has any suggestions based on what I have posted or the name of a good KNX installer, please advise. My WAF is extraordinarily low (wife acceptance factor). I will be grateful for whatever assistance can be offered.

          David

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          • #6
            You may create a painting of your wiring and devices, or some photos. I’m sure there is some wiring problem, as usually - with correct devices - this „simply works“.
            LoxBerry/Plugin Support: Wenn du einen Begriff in meiner Antwort nicht auf Anhieb verstehst, bitte nicht gleich rückfragen, sondern erst die Suche im LoxWiki und bei Google bemühen.
            PN/PM: Ich bevorzuge die Beantwortung von Fragen in öffentlichen Threads, wo andere mithelfen und mitprofitieren können. Herzlichen Dank!

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            • #7
              Can I suggest you put the KNX IP POE interface aside for the moment. It's one more thing that can be setup incorrectly.

              Simply use two wires to connect the Miniserver KNX port to the KNX power supply. Power up both and check that you have connectivity between the ETS software and the Miniserver. From your first screenshot above, you seem to have successfully got to this stage?
              Ich spreche kein Deutsch. Gib Google Translate die Schuld, wenn ich unverständlich bin.

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              • #8
                you still have not answered the question regarding the powersupply. ( brand and type)
                Maybe your knx power supply is not a real knx power supply, in such case you will never get any databit on the line.

                Additionaly it would help us helping you if you could supply us with a drawing how you have done the wiring.

                A special knx powersupply is needed in any case as this puts the knx power on the knx line without knocking of the databits. Without such knx powersupply a knx bus is no knx bus and will not work.
                Zuletzt geändert von Labmaster; vor 6 Tagen.

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                • #9
                  In general, you cannot leave this statement with the power supply. KNX components usually run faultlessly even at 24V, most probably even a little bit lower. It is much more important to match the power of the power supply to the total power consumption of the installed components. What to do in this case is to install a KNX choke between the external power supply and the KNX bus. This does not mean that this type of installation is recommended, the variant with the KNX power supply with integrated choke is in any case the better choice.

                  I hope that this will not start a discussion of principles.

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                  • Labmaster
                    Labmaster kommentierte
                    Kommentar bearbeiten
                    I have nothing written about power / voltages.
                    KNX would probably work down to about 22V but a so called KNX Powersupply has a special choke integrated, this choke allows to put data on the line. Without that choke no data can be modulated to the lines.
                    A „standard‘ powersupply will not work !!!
                    From ABB and others there are external KNX Power couplers ( in fact external chokes ) available but in the actual context this would make things even more complicaed to explain, so let us agree that you need a KNX Powersupply ( in one housings, or in two , it doesnt matter )

                    At the moment we know near to nothing about the actual setup and/or the planned setup, as soon as we know more we. are able to give suggestions regarding current, voltage ....
                    Zuletzt geändert von Labmaster; vor 6 Tagen.

                • #10
                  All:

                  Thank you again for responding. I really appreciate your willingness to help me. I will try to send some wiring pics after I finish this post and upload them. I did purchase a dedicated KNX power supply https://www.meanwell.com/Upload/PDF/...E-640-SPEC.PDF. However, I was having problems with it and do not have it installed. From everyone's comments, it appears that I should employ Occam's Razor and get back to simplicity.

                  I will remove the IP POE interface and run the wiring from the miniserver to KNX power supply. Am I correct that KNX should be run at 30v? I will try to make the suggested changes and report.

                  David

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                  • Tico
                    Tico kommentierte
                    Kommentar bearbeiten
                    Correct - 30VDC. I use the same power supply and I've never needed to alter it from factory settings.

                • #11
                  I notice that the input voltage range for the Meanwell KNX power supply is 180-264 VAC. Can I assume that your nominal house voltage is 110VAC in the USA? This is not likely to work.


                  Klicke auf die Grafik für eine vergrößerte Ansicht  Name: Voltage range.png Ansichten: 2 Größe: 108,4 KB ID: 257196


                  You will need an AC-AC transformer to suit the European standards of the Meanwell KNX voltage input requirements -

                  https://voltage-converter-transforme...rmer-converter

                  On reading the details on the IP POE interface, it appears that it just provides an IP interface for KNX, but it doesn't suggest that it powers the KNX bus. It appears the IP interface is powered via the POE network or you can inject power direct to the IP device (again, this direct power supply just powers the IP device and not the KNX bus). You still need a dedicated KNX power supply to power the KNX bus.

                  I suggest the KNX IP POE interface may only be required if you have a really stubborn device that refuses to talk to the Miniserver. At the moment, you just need the correct voltage supply for the Meanwell KNX-20E-640.



                  Klicke auf die Grafik für eine vergrößerte Ansicht  Name: KNX EIB IP Interface.png Ansichten: 2 Größe: 263,2 KB ID: 257195
                  Zuletzt geändert von Tico; vor 5 Tagen.
                  Ich spreche kein Deutsch. Gib Google Translate die Schuld, wenn ich unverständlich bin.

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                  • #12
                    I connected my KNX power supply to a 110v outlet. Without anything connected, I measured only 83mv. In addition, none of the lights turned on. I tried the reset for 20 seconds but that cause any change. Is there something wrong with the power supply? In my earlier post, I had explained that the KNX power supply wasn't in use. The reason is because I thought there was something wrong with it. Does anyone else have this power supply? Is it working properly?

                    I was expecting a 30v output. Is it different with a KNX supply?

                    Klicke auf die Grafik für eine vergrößerte Ansicht

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                    • #13
                      Did you read post #11? It won't work with 110VAC.

                      Klicke auf die Grafik für eine vergrößerte Ansicht

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                      Ich spreche kein Deutsch. Gib Google Translate die Schuld, wenn ich unverständlich bin.

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                      • #14
                        a good point.
                        Zennio, ABB, Weinzierl and Jung have KNX Powersupplys with wide range Input capable of 110V .

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                        • #15
                          If you want to use your Meanwell KNX Powersupply together with a input voltage transformer (110v to ~230V) you still have to make sure that, you use the right output on the KNX Powersupply.
                          Most KNX Powersupplys ( even the Meanwell ) have two outputs , one for the main KNX Bus (that one with the small red/black connector) and that one with the screw terminls ( helper output, but not usable for the KNX Bus itself )

                          You have to use the output with the small red/black connector. The other output has no choke installed and so will preven data transmition.
                          Zuletzt geändert von Labmaster; vor 4 Tagen.

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